| Interview mit Jeff Smith (OmU) |
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| Geschrieben von Thomas und Björn | ||||
| Donnerstag, 15. Februar 2007 | ||||
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When Jeff Smith came to the Frankfurt Book Fair (in October 2006) to promote these new Bone editions, Thomas Kögel (TK) and Björn Wederhake (BW) had the chance to talk with him about his world tour, his past and future work and his views on self-publishing in today's marketplace. TK: A little over one month? JS: Oh, no. You are right. The whole thing ends in February. But I’m in Europe for five weeks. Which is very exciting. I like that. TK: And Frankfurt is the first station? JS: Yeah. BW: Do you get to see the sights actually or is it like you are shoe-horned in here and then... well, 'stuck' sounds too negative... but did you really see Frankfurt or was it more like... JS: No. It’s more like getting shoe-horned into here and when I get home, people will ask me: ‘How is Frankfurt?’ And I’ll say: ‘Well, the drapes in the hotel are very nice.’ [laughs] Although, I arrived in Frankfurt on Tuesday evening, and we came for the opening of the exhibit over here, which turned out very nice. But then we got on a plane, it was like 3 o’clock, and flew to Berlin, to the store signing there. And I got the chance to at least see Berlin. So we went to some cafes and we had a nice dinner and some of Tokyopop’s staff had some friends there. So we went out and I got to enjoy Berlin quite a bit and I got to see some of the sights. It was very good. Saw the Brandenburg Gate. TK: Saw it for the first time? JS: Yes. I’ve been to Germany four times, but this was my first time in Berlin -- and Bonn. And we’re going to Hamburg after this, so it’s been quite a whirling. We’re back in Frankfurt for the weekend. But you’re here, you know how crazy this is. TK: Oh yeah, absolutely. JS: Oh, and then I go from Germany to Athens and then Madrid and Barcelona, Bilbao, Oslo, Paris. BW: Sounds like you’re goin' to more places in one month than I’ve been to in my entire life. JS: [laughs] This is going to be quite a trip. But it’s kind of a once-in-a-life opportunity, with all of Europe launching this colour book all at once. It’s a kind of a new idea. I don’t know who else is gonna get this chance. Definitely not an indie guy like me. TK: Scott McCloud does an American tour now, through the fifty states, I read. JS: Yes, and in fact we’re gonna cross paths in February. So that’ll be fun. A little cross-over event. [laughs] Have you been following Scott’s blog as he goes? TK: Not regularly, but from time to time. JS: Yeah, me too. I try to do it more regularly but on the road I can’t get online as easily as I thought. TK: Well, two days ago I looked into your blog and I saw you have everything from Frankfurt just put in. 
JS: Yes. Just this morning I finished up my trip to Berlin. And my favourite meal of course is on the blog . TK: So, this tour is very busy for you, these five weeks. Or is it a little bit of vacation, too? JS: There’s a little bit. My wife is gonna join me in Paris. And then we have like four days free in Venice. So I’m lookin’ forward to it a lot. And then the European tour ends in Lucca. The Lucca Comic Festival is my favourite. TK: I've never been there. JS: Oh, you should go. It’s this medieval old city and the food and the wine is excellent and there’s a lot of people. And it’s a good show. It’s a very good show. And Urlingen is also a very good show. [Jeff pronounces this ‘Urlingen’ whereas the German pronouciation would rather be ‘Airlungen’] TK: Where? JS: Urlingen? I mean, I’ve been there before... TK: Ah, Erlangen. Yeah. JS: Ya, ya. TK: We had our own booth there this year. JS: Didya? How’d it go? TK: We sold this magazine and it was great. We had a great time. Because in Erlangen everything is... well, the comics family. Everybody knows everybody and it’s very cozy. BW: That’s of course one of the perks when you have a small comic scene. It’s a bit sad in one way, but on the other hand everybody knows everybody and Erlangen is only every other year. So people are lookin’ forward to it and it’s real nice. JS: Well, even in the US the comic industry, as compared to Japan, is small. It’s very small. I mean, I see the same people at every show I go to, y’know. I see them in San Diego. I saw Don Rosa. I see Don Rosa when I travel in Europe. I see him wherever I go. And he says the same about me. TK: So, let’s talk a bit about Bone now. JS: Alright. Have you seen this already? [Jeff picks up a coloured edition of the first Bone volume published by Tokyopop Germany.] 
TK: Yeah, I saw the new edition. I like the idea that it’s coloured now. But you did plan it from the beginning as a black and white comic, didn’t you? JS: Yes, I did. I always liked the way you could use black to create certain kinds of compositions. Especially, you can use black to show something as very far away, y’know, back in a distance. Like, I had something that’s far back and... uh, I don’t know if I can find something just real quick, but... other times you put something black in the foreground and show that it’s close. [Jeff starts leafing through the edition.] JS: Nyah, of course I can’t find something right now, but you get the idea. So, I spent a lot of time learning how to draw comics and tell stories with black and white. But I always thought, maybe when I was done, I could do an ultimate black and white edition and if I can get someone to pay for it, I would love to do a full coloured thing. And that has come to pass, because that 1,300 page One Volume Edition, that’s my ultimate black and white edition. BW: So, from day one you had the idea ‘I want to go this way and I want to end there, and I really want to have this one, big “Epos”.' JS: Yeah, I definitely did. I’ve drawn Bone as a comic strip in my college newspaper, but it just... y’know, I was trying to do jokes and I had the settings and the characters, but there was no story to it and really no point. It was just a kind of a gag-a-day thing. And then one day I just started to think of a story that might be worth telling and ever since I was a little kid I always wanted a very long form comic. I always wished Uncle Scrooge stories could be kinda lined up from end to end and actually have a chronological beginning and a middle, and all the way through. Some time in college I thought: ‘I think I know a story.’ So I wrote it down and made a big outline, kind of, to hit the points I had to make and actually drew the last page in 1990. So, in 2004 I finally got to get that paper out and see the final page. TK: So, you had a road map, but you didn’t know if it was gonna be 1,000 pages or 1,300 pages. JS: Yes, right, or 2,000 pages. I didn’t know. But there was a point where you start to see: ‘Okay, it took me this long to get half way through.’ So, there was a point where I said: ‘Oh, it’s gonna be nine volumes.’ Because, by the time I got to ‘Roque Ja’ – which is the center of this book – I knew I was at the center. I said: ‘Okay, this is five. There should be - I didn’t know - three, six more books.’ I wasn’t sure. TK: In the middle of the road, did you have kind of – I don’t know – a crisis or something? I know it was a huge success, but I can imagine that someone says: ‘I’m fed up with Bone, I want to do something totally else.’ JS: Oh, you mean me? TK: Yes.  JS: I thought you meant the readers. No. I was intent on finishing it. Always. I mean, there were difficult times. Or times when I wasn’t making money. Or the readers would get mad at me because I was spending too much time developing an idea. Y’know, like three or four issues for one scene. And that would take eight months to do, and more. But, no, I was always just trying to figure out how to keep it going and I was never thinking that I would give up. I wanted to finish it. TK: So, when you finished it, there must have been some kind of emptiness, or a sad moment saying good-bye to these creatures. JS: Y’know, a lot of people ask me that, but I have to honestly say, I did not feel sadness. I mean, there was a moment very near the end of the book where some of the characters wave good-bye and I was kinda sad drawing that panel. But mostly I have to say, I was relieved to be done. The last couple of years were extremely difficult. I’d even say they were painful. Trying to get the story to work, tryin’ to stay on schedule, tryin’ to get up every morning and just keep at it. And a lot of the story wasn’t really working. I mean, the work was difficult. Y’know what I mean? Trying to take all those different storylines and tie them all together and make them come together in an ending that would be really exciting and satisfying, but not feel kind of stagey or formulaic, like in a Hollywood movie. I really wanted to avoid that. And doing that was extremely difficult. BW: There’s something I wondered because you said, in the end getting up was a bit of a problem. There’s the thing: I mean you worked on this for a big chunk of your life and you had experiences in this time, and you grew older. William Gibson once said he read Neuromancer again and he noticed, that was no longer the same person as the person who wrote that book. So how odd is it to work on a continuing storyline, while you are developing. To work on this story and still not change the entire plot to stay true to where you began? JS: Um... that’s a very good question. Be patient while I try to think of a good answer. [laughs] 
It was long. But the kind of a story I was working on was a fantasy. And that’s based on, I think, very fundamental, sound ideas that I found in mythology and folk tales. And I think, those ideas, those things like quests and the kinds of adventures that are in Bone or in folk tales are eternal, in some ways. Those ideas, those fundamental elements of those kinds of a story, I don’t think, ever actually fail. If I understand what I’m building my story on correctly, it should work for me through a fifteen year period. Each turning point that a character has to go through, should relate to a turning point that I’m going through as an artist. Doesn’t matter what age I was at when I had it. It’s like a metaphor. And the same should hold true for any reader at any age who reads the book. It should continually work as a growing object, or an... an object is not the right word. But, y’know, this is a difficult thing you’ve asked me. [laughs] I’m grasping here. But a person of any age should be able read it and go through it and – theoretically at least – should be able to come back, y’know, ten years later and read it again and it’ll work with them again. BW: So, it’s like a multi-layered thing, it’s something for all ages? You see it with different eyes, that’s what you’re trying to say? JS: I guess that – to answer your question more directly – I never experienced an ‘I should never have committed to such a long story’, because it continued to be fulfilling and rewarding to work on and because it was so big. It nearly got out of control quite a few times and that process was then very organic. That made it fun to work on and hopefully it’ll make it fun to read as well. Does that answer your question? BW: Yes. JS: Did you mean to uncork that? [laughs] TK: So, maybe we can talk about the self-publishing thing. You’ve been one of the pioneers and maybe the most successful guy who did it. And the market changed more than once during the time you did it. JS: Many shifts. TK: If you’d start today, would you do it again? JS: Yes. Oh, yes. TK: In today’s marketplace? JS: I don’t know if I would do it the same way. It’s very interesting for me to look at the kind of comics that are out there and the young cartoonists. And the main difference that I see between the do-it-yourselfers of my generation and today’s do-it-yourselfers is the internet. Because when I was doing it, really the only avenue open to you were these whole stapled pamphlets. You had to do it on newsprint. A comic book on newsprint. And colour was pretty much out of the options because it was so expensive. Today’s do-it-yourselfers are online. And they have no market forces, they’re just putting them up. Ah, whatever they want to draw, they draw. And they’re doing it on their own time and sometimes they make money on it. Like, ah, Joscha? TK: Joscha Sauer, yes. He started on the internet. [One of Germany’s most succesful cartoonists: www.nichtlustig.de] JS: He started on the internet and now it’s his full-time job. TK: It’s a success story. JS: A very good success story. And of course, also web offers colour. Y’know, just an infinite palette of colours, anything you want. So, I probably wouldn’t do it the same way, I would certainly enter through the internet. Because that’s where you do it nowadays. BW: What do you think of someone with this kind of vision: ‘I’ve got this epic kind of story I want to tell and I would really like to see it in print.’ If he came to the market today, what do you think: Would the situation for him be easier or harder than it was when you started? Well, of course there is the internet. But the market itself, for people who say: ‘I want to do my own thing.’ 
JS: This is kind of a wishy-washy answer, but it’s a little bit of both. Quite honestly. I mean, when I started there was just very little like that, so there was a great deal of just getting the word out and getting people to try new things. Y’know, in some way that ground has been taken care of. That wall’s been broken down. And in some way it’s easier. People are more open to different kinds of comics. Y’know, in France there’s just one specific kind of comic scene, like there are all the big painted fantasy books, or cowboy books, or whatever. And then in the US it’s superheroes. But I think that is breaking down and manga’s helping. But on the other hand, I think it’s more difficult, because the market place is in such flux and we’re... what is really happening now? It would be very difficult, I think, for a young person to figure out where should he go? Should he try to go to do manga, because clearly that’s the biggest new market? Should he go on the internet? Should he try to do it, y’know, old school and actually print a physical object? I think that most of the young people that I talk to... young people, y’know, anybody who’s in their thirties is young to me... eh, it seems to me they all want to do print. Even if they go on the internet, the ultimate goal is to make a book. So, I think they can do that. I’m not quite sure what their path will be, but... you tell me, you probably know more than I do. [laughs] TK: We were also very glad when we saw this [our Comicgate-Magazin 1] for the first time in print. JS: See?! TK: It’s another feeling, holding something in your hands and leafing through it. BW: And it’s more real than something on the web. JS: There is something, the objet d'art, which I believe is part of the human condition. However, I have had hour long sessions with Scott McCloud in bars where Scott just unleashes his ideas and my hair blows back. [laughs] And Scott believes that in our lifetimes, soon, we will have handheld objects this size on which you call up ‘Comicgate Magazine’ and it will look this way. It will be this matte finish, but it’s all digital. And, as far as I’m concerned, if they reach that? Fine. But they’re not there yet. But I do, I agree with you. I actually think that there is something about the physical object that we can touch, hold and... TK: And smell it. JS: And smell it! [Jeff moves closer to the recording device.] Okay, this is a note for Scott McCloud: We need to have a little Smell-O-Vision added to your digital... [laughter] TK: Smell-O-Vision™. JS: Yes, Smell-O-Vision, TM Jeff Smith. For the Comic Visual Port... um... Digital... 
TK: So, another question. We talked about manga shortly. Bone is the first non-manga comic book from a publisher who did exclusively publish manga until now, Tokyopop Germany. So, how is that feeling for you being part of a so called manga publisher? JS: I like it. Because I think manga is, in general, a good thing. I do. It’s aimed at children and girls, boys... this youthful audience for us is a good thing. And Bone has always been unusual in the US because it does appeal to girls, and to boys, and adults. Whereas most US comics are pretty much for adults. Y’know, there are collectors who have been buying Spider-Man for their whole lives. And I’m actually flattered that it’s considered to be something that’s, y’know, hip enough. [laughs] BW: Did you have a chance to go and see the reaction of, um, well the 'manga kids'? Their reaction when they see your book? Did you have a chance to see that? JS: Well, today’s the first day that they can actually buy them here [on the Book Fair]. So I haven’t had much of a chance, because this book’s only out for three, four days. But I think they’re liking it okay. But what I did notice: A lot of them are buying the coloured version, which is unusal. Although, when I was on the signing, when I was signing in Berlin and Bonn, all the kids had the black and white book and all the adults had the coloured, which is the opposite of America, where I have the black and white One Volume. The adults buy that, ‘cause that’s my original indie underground audience. And the colour books, that are published by Scholastic, are sold in the children’s book section. TK: Yeah, the good thing about that black & white edition: It’s very affordable. BW: Yeah, it’s 6.50 Euros. So it’s four Euros (roughly four Dollars) cheaper than the coloured version. JS: Yeah, which is why we were surprised this morning, when they were buying more of the coloured version. Because it’s more expensive. TK: Is Germany the only country where it’s published in two versions at the same time? JS: And in America. In America and in Germany. It’s an experiment. It might be the very beginnings of starting to figure out the market place. And if there are two markets, that’s okay. As long as we supply them with comics. I’m more interested in comics that are written and drawn by one person. Manga to me is a lot more like Superman or X-Men, y’know. They’re company projects. There’s one person assigned to write and another to pencil it and sometimes it's done with studios. So, they don’t usually interest me as much like something by Lewis Trondheim, for example. TK: The artistic vision of one person coming to the page. JS: Yeah, yeah. But it takes a very long time to make that. There are manga books where there is one person who writes and draws. BW: Right now, do you have some guy who writes and draws his own book, where you say: ‘This thing is good. This thing is going to be really great.’ Like, some sort of secret tip? JS: Oh, you’re thinking about a new book that I think is really good? BW: Yeah, something that’s new. Or something older that hasn’t been read so widely, but where you say: ‘Wow, this was so great. Why didn’t people read this?’ JS: Yeah, I’ve been lookin’ at so many German comics. What was I reading recently? I’ve read a lot of reprint books, because there’s a lot of really gorgeous projects, like the giant Little Nemo in Slumberland, which is probably hard to get over here. BW: You get it in bookstores in Germany as well. It has been translated. 
JS: Yeah, I’ve been reading stuff like that. The Peanuts that have been re-collected. But there are definitely some good books I’ve been reading lately. Oooh, yeah... I got it... and this is published by Fantagraphics. It’s called The Night Fisher. And the name of the guy is R. Kikuo Johnson. It just won a [Harvey] award. So it’s not like a secret tip, it just won Best Newcomer. And it’ll probably win an Ignatz Award at the SPX. But that’s a really brilliant book. It’s a little David Mazzucchelli influenced, but the storytelling is really sharp. So that’s my guy to look out for right now. TK: So, I have to do the ‘What’s next?’ question. You finished Bone, it’s your Opus Magnum, and people start to ask: What’s coming next? What does Mr. Bone do next?’ Is this kind of a burden for you? You are Bone, Bone is you. And whatever you do next will be compared to Bone. JS: As I got to the end of Bone, I received a phone call from DC Comics. Mike Carlin, the editor, asked if I would do a version of Captain Marvel and re-tell his origin story and relaunch him, and I agreed to do it. I said, I would do a four issue mini-series. Y’know, one graphic novel. I knew I had to do something after Bone. And I thought it needed to be something very different from Bone. Not so much because I was worried that people would compare it. But just for my own sanity. Because, like Art Spiegelman was saying he got that with Maus and I had been talking with Dave Sim. And he was thinking about that too. Y’know, we’re coming up to this big hole. This big gaping hole. And some people fall in. And I didn’t want to fall in. So I thought, I would just grab on to that. So, for two years, since I finished Bone, I’ve been working on this Captain Marvel graphic novel. And it’s based on an old, famous serial from the 1940s. This was one of the very first long form comics. So that will be coming out in 2007. I'm almost done with that. 
[Editor's note: In the meantime, in February 2007, DC Comics released issue #1 of Shazam! The Monster Society of Evil.]And then after that, I’ll go back to my roots. I have a new story line to be published through Cartoon Books. It’ll be a science fiction story. It won’t be Bone. But hopefully there'll be this superhero comic in between. And I hope people will let me do something besides Bone, actually. BW: People will say: ‘Uh, that’s the Captain Marvel guy. I know him from DC.’ TK: I read somewhere on the internet about a story together with Paul Pope. Big Big, or something? JS: Yeah, yeah. We’re not doing the story together, but we’re gonna try to do a project where he’ll do a story and I’ll do a story. We’ve been trying for years, I don’t know if our schedules are ever going to synch up. So, maybe we’ll do our stories together at the same time, or maybe we’ll have to do them seperately. Yeah, but I’m still doing the story. That’s the story I was talking of, the science fiction story. So, that’s my next project. TK: And this will also be a bigger project? JS: Not like Bone. Y’know, I don’t have time. I don’t have enough years left to do that again. I don’t know, maybe between a hundred and two hundred pages. I don’t know exactly. And, I still have to finish Shazam! before I actually start writing that. TK: Another question, which is asked by everybody, I think. The Bone movie: Has it died forever, or...? JS: I hope so. TK: You hope so? JS: Yes, I would prefer that Bone would be known as a comic book, rather than as a movie. TK: Yeah, I like that idea as well... 
BW: What about the game licensing. There’s the Bone game that’s sold in short chapters on the internet. Do you have anything to do with that or is that, like, you sell the license and then you say: ‘Okay, as long as you don’t completely screw up.’ JS: It’s really much like that. I mean, the guys that are doing it worked for LucasArts for like ten years and did a bunch of good games. Like Sam & Max and Monkey Island. And they wanted to leave Lucas and start a new company. They then came to talk to me, because they wanted Bone to be the first project. So they had a very good resumé and they really liked Bone, I could tell. They would be respectful. So they showed me everything. ‘Here is this what we’re doing.’ They’ve got two games. They’re gonna do six games, I think, to tell the whole story and I think there’s a German version coming out this fall. TK: Maybe we’ll check it out. JS: Telltalegames.com. TK: D’you have another question, Björn? BW: Err... nothing that comes to my mind right now. Once I step out there, I’ll go back and I’ll be like ‘d’oh’, but... no. JS: Well, you can ask me about Gerhard, y’know. Nah, that’s a joke. Editor's note.: Gerhard has been Dave Sim's assistant and has been drawing backgrounds for Cerebus for many years. There was a legendary public dispute between Dave Sim and Jeff Smith, culminating in Dave offering Jeff a boxing match. You can read more on that here .] BW: Does he exist? Is he actually Dave Sim? You can tell us. JS: No, Gerhard does exist. And he’s actually one of the sweetest, gentlest and best people I’ve ever met. A very nice guy. Absolutely fearless when it comes to just drawing these backgrounds. BW: I think you have to be when you work on Cerebus. I think you have to, if you really are willing to commit yourself, like Dave Sim did or like you did with Bone. I think you really have to be fearless, kind of. JS: Ya... so, we finish it? TK: Yes, let’s finish here. Jeff, thanks for your time. It’s been a pleasure.
RELATED LINKS:
Boneville : Jeff Smith's Weblogand official Bone website. Bone's coloured edition at Scholastic Press Image sources: Thomas Kögel (pictures), telltalegames.com, boneville.com, fantagraphics.com Kommentare (1)
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geschrieben von Daniel , 30. April 2007, 14:41 Schönen guten Tag die Damen und Herren, zu diesem Interview fällt mir ein, dass in einem sehr schönen Artikel "Erdferkel sterben langsam" der wahre Nachname von Gerhard geklärt wurde: Er heißt nämlich Schmuck, Gerhard Schmuck und ist Sohn deutscher Einwanderer. Kommentar schreiben
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Jeff Smith, born in 1960, is one of the pioneers of self-published comic books and also one of the most successful self-publishers. He was not only creator, writer, penciller, inker and letterer of his fantasy series Bone, but also its publisher (Cartoon Books). Bone was released from 1991 to 2004 in 55 single issues and several paperback collections. After finishing the story, Smith collected the whole epic in the 1300-page "One Volume Edition". In 2004, Scholastic Press started releasing a coloured edition of the book, which was originally done in black and white. In Germany, Bone has been published by Carlsen Comics in 20 trade paperbacks. In fall 2006, Tokyopop Germany launched not only one new edition, but two: The publisher is offering coloured hardcovers and also a very affordable manga-sized black-and-white edition.
